I know, I know I am a big fan of conversational blogging and was right ahead during the comments-please crusade a few months ago. But when I see what some bloggers go through, thanks to sickos who post rot on their comments section, I am forced to rethink – well, almost.
Uma MD regularly goes through the comments-on-comments-off routine – and I know you will agree that her blog is more fun with the comments on…
And now Mangs has switched off comments on her blog.
I hate to see this happen with people who want to keep their blogs – and minds – open to conversations (as for bloggers who switch off their comments seeking better quality interactions through email, this is not relevant).
Spam comments, I have learnt to deal with. Hail wordpress!
Anonymous pathetic ones like this (on this post), I have learnt to ignore – or laugh at.
I am surprised that such things happen in India. Trust me, I never thought sexual harrassment is common or prevalent in our country. Maybe, I never bothered to look beyond books, the one thing I care about.
What happened to Mangs was sad but I think Mangs over-reacted. Yes, she over-reacted! What “Sanjeev Kumar†has already got is “cruel and unusual punishment”. And, no I think people are responsible for the acts of volition. If he were a psychopath or repeat offender (how do I know? Psychology classes!), she would have realized how the system wouldn’t have got anything in either US or India.
And this was from someone who signed in as anonymous coward. I kid you not.
But nasty ones?
Surely there must be a better way to control comments?
What are you comments on this ? 🙂
These anonymous comments are wreaking havoc everywhere. Do you get the IP adddress of all the comments? If you are a popular blogger or somebody who writes controversial stuff then it is better to turn off comments. In blogger.com you have a way of disabling anonymous comments. Do you have any such feature?
It is sad when popular and interesting blogs shut down their comments. Although I hate to see this happen, I have to respect their wishes. It almost seems that the blogosphere has been hit with a spam and hate-comments epidemic. Can there be a technological barrier to persistent and anonymous comments? But we can’t do much if the person is hell bent upon creating a bad atmosphere…there are bad apples everywhere. Banning IPs can help to some extent.
It is an individual issue whether to allow comments or not. I personally feel that I shouldn’t get hassled with awkward and unacceptable comments since it gives a view into the range of feelings and thoughts people may have- how good they can be as well as how perverse they can be…
I really enjoy the comments and conversations in my blog, and thankfully no one has left really aggravating comments yet. But I can see why I will really, really be upset if someone (especially under an anonymous curtain) wrecks my day. I think if a person is being spammed by obnoxious comments that person is better off disabling comments and being at peace, than otherwise.
i have had to deal with nasty comments and hate mail. but i dont mind any of it.
i guess it depends on your disposition and how u decide to deal with them.
Charu
I guess its a choice one has to make when you set your comments on, an obvious fallout of foraying into the cyberworld. And if you cant stand the heat, then just switch the comments off. However I cannot imagine somone being that much of an annoyance to warrant switching off the comments. Some of the best arguments that I have read were posted in response to Yazads article on poverty. Remember that and the hordes it attracted ? Some heady stuff eh ?
Sourin
Hi Charu,
Consider blogging this way: One is renting some auditorium where he/she keeps a microphone and professes his/her ideas. Commenting is a way to make the blog interactive, and it is just like getting feedback and then evoking discussions with the audience.
If u keep the audtiorium open there will be all kind of people in your blog… all kindsa people have all kindsa ideas… some of them will not be wanting to stand up from the crowd and say something either because they are too famous to be identified or because they are too cowardly to own up whatever they say.
There is some amount of psychology in anonymous commenting I guess. Because if you have something worthy to say and you do not feel scared to open up and say it, then why the hell post anonymous. Which means that the anonymous commenters either say worthless comments(which are usually rude and boorish) and are cowards(that is what u were saying).
An educated person would be easily able to judge your post and an anonymous comment. I think to him there would not be any difference whether there was a comment or not. It would just be like spam.
So keep posting and don’t care about such stuff..
But thats easier said than done… i have had female friends who stopped blogging because of really nasty anonymous comments
It is interesting that the first few comments on this one have been from men – and they all say ‘take it or leave it’ about comments. And that the two bloggers I have linked to in this post are women.
Non men, non majority religion – these attract a different ‘quality’ of comments altogether – more on this when I am more awake.
Hi Charu,
I really liked your post. I am with the women on this one: like Uma and Hemangini (two amazing blogs, if I might add) I fluctuate between comments on, no anonymous comments, and no comments at all. For the record, I have not received any nasty anonymous comments, but I do get annoyed when anonymous commenters write silly things just to get a rise out of me. For example, on my recent “Fair and Lovely” post, there is one anonymous person who is nitpicking my arguments with flawed logic. Sometimes I wonder if I should respond to him/her. Sometimes I wonder if I should ignore these silly comments altogether. And sometimes I wonder if I should use my blogger powers and just delete the comments that annoy me.
If I think about these things too much, I remind myself that this is just blogging and I should not take these things too seriously. But then I realize that I put a lot of thought and effort into my articles and to have some anonymous dude write asinine things can be quite annoying. What to do?
I’ve seen some really nasty anonymous comments on two websites in particular: one is Sepia Mutiny, an Indian diasporic site that attracts people from all sides of the spectrum. The other is Dilip D’Souza’s outstanding “Death Ends Fun.” Whenever Dilip writes on something political/controversial, people come out of the woodworks to write vitriolic personal attacks on Dilip. If Dilip writes on issues like Ayodyha or Hindu-Muslim tensions, people write things like, “you are a stupid Xtian…” and much worse.
Perhaps Charu you are on to something in regards to your comment about “non men, non majority religion” bloggers. Maybe my last name and my Indian American identity puts me into that category. Or maybe it’s a personal thing that has nothing to do with male/female/majority/minority. I’m excited to read your upcoming article (when I am awake as well).
Hi Charu
I think most people who comment on blogs are polite and mean well. There are some people who are a bit annoying and some who are more annoyed than others by the occasional unwelcome comment.
I believe your blog is your property and you have the perfect right to either stop comments or to delete comments. Deleting comments of people who might think they have something legitimate to add to the conversation is harse and might seem nasty, but it may be necessary.
I know that Abhi of Sepia Mutiny will begin deleting comments if the thread gets off track. And, of course, you need to weed out any spam.
I have found that if you ignore commenters, they tend to ignore you. I try not to ignore the friendly commenters, who are the majority.
Okay, I sometimes sign off my anon posts as “Anonymous Coward”, but that was wasn’t mine. That’s the price for taking up an anon-signature – everyone can use it.
Anyway, the phrase “anonymous coward” shouldn’t be seen as anything significant, or an admission of cowardice. It comes from Slashdot (http://slashdot.org) where are anonymous posts are attributed to “Anonymous Coward”.
Look at this page for more background :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_Coward
Charu, I posted the following in reply to the “anonymous coward”:
Anonymous (at comment 15): Such things do happen in India. Much worse than this happens in India. India is a part of the world, and this – and much worse – happens all over the world. Less in some places, more in others, but it happens everywhere.
I love books, too, but we all need to look beyond them, look around at the real world and see what we can do to change things.
I already see the internet, websites, emails, and BLOGGING as an important way of speaking out. Of showing solidarity. Voicing secret fears…and secret weaknesses. And, on the rare occasion, sharing those special moments when one discovers… a kind of strength. As Mangs did, on that day.
That post by Mangs was incredible. It touched a very secret, vulnerable part of me as a woman – just as it must have touched other women. And, I’m sure, quite a few men.
I don’t think she overreacted at all. She did the right thing, the responsible thing. The thing that we should all do, each of us, in a similar situation: except that she is the one who has done it.
Filing a complaint with the police and getting the legal/punitive system into action is what we need to do in such a case. Public shaming, etc is not a punishment. The aggrieved individual should lodge the complaint, the police should investigate, the court should pronounce its judgement. Does this sound idealistic? Ideals are only as good as the people who believe in them. This is how the legal system should work, and it will only work if each one of us shows the kind of incredible responsibility that Mangs showed on that day.
i’ve often heard the “if you can’t stand the heat” advice (sourin i’m not referring to your comment – i know you’re using it in another context :)), but sometimes it depends on what’s cooking, and who’s cooking it.
charu, i think it’s not just the non-majority religion..it’s also any questioning within the ‘majority religion’…
and then there’s hatemail. there are too many free email accounts on offer these days. people can set one up with utmost ease and then send along the kind of horrific garbage that they’re too ashamed to post even anonymously. it makes you sad that there are such people out there.
Having comments are a good thing. Having a comment policy is a better thing. The fact is that there are far too many perverts around – both in the real world and the online. And in a sense, most of us are perverts, but with different perversions. But the stupid, spineless ones outnumber the rest.
I read the post Mangs put up, and my thought was, and I didn’t share it, was that she hadn’t acted/reacted enough.
Charu, we’ve discussed this. Time permitting, I try to respond to anyone who raises a point, even disagreeing strongly with me, that I think is worthwhile. Anonymous people, abusive people, usually (but not always) get no response. They speak for themselves and they are welcome to keep doing it. My feeling is, a viewpoint that needs abuse to bolster it is a pretty shaky viewpoint to begin with.
open can. worms. everywhere. and all my own doing. trying to sort out these comments and add my own thoughts.
First, does it really make a difference if the comment is anonymous or signed K or J or anything for that matter? how does it make a difference – unless there is some identity like the commentor’s blog url or email id provided along with the K or J?
Gera, anonymous coward, I think is an apposition – the second term defines the first on its own!
My problem is not with anonymous comments – it is when a person wants to say something nasty and personal and hides behind this cloak of anonymity.
I am all for discussion – and dissenting voices surely add to the quality of the discussion – but there is such a thing as a personal attack and that is where it becomes a no no.
Vikrum, in you case, I dont think it has anything to do with your name or identity (seeing the comments on your blog) – it is just jokers who get a kick out of nitpicking and squabbling over irrelevant details. but with Dilip, sadly, it is – makes me sick but there it is. It it because of his name or only because he writes controversial (otherwise known as thought-provoking) stuff, I cannot say.
And about the majority opinion of turning off comments if it gets too hot to handle, I would hate to do it – why not just stop blogging instead? many time, I just voice a thought aloud on my blog and it is actually the comments which make the post (there, now I have confessed to it!)
Blocking anon comments also doesnt make practical sense – as I said, if the person fills in a non existent email id or leaves an initial, how does that help?
As for banning IPs, there are more where one came from!
Deleting comments is an option, but the damage is done – the blogger has read it and then it doesnt matter…
Ravages, Mangs did react in a bold and responsible manner – which is why so many brickbats aimed at her – along with so many more who have supported her. but one sour or nasty comment is enough to make the whole thing stink.
Uma, I agree it is about anyone questioning – but a non majority religion questioner makes it easier for the attacker (what a strong word – and this for a blog but this is how I feel sometimes) to play the game really nasty…
and Uma, thanks for responding to the earlier anonymous coward comment – actually I have been somewhat of a coward myself – and not responded to any of the comments on that post – I was quite startled and disturbed by some of the responses there –
was hoping someone would kick me about it or forget about it completely – *sheepish*
I found this quote in Jai Arjun’s post on comments: “For all sad words of pen, tongue or keyboard, the saddest are these: 0 comments.â€
How true!
Hey! As usual I log in LATE! The interesting part is, in response to the train-to-chennai post, I didn’t get anything I couldn’t deal with. Yes, I was called casteist etc. and had some rude comments, but honestly, nothing I couldn’t deal with. The reason I finally did turn off anonymous comments is because of someone who piped in with something that had nothing to do with my blog or my post but me as a person. And it was a personal something which should have been emailed to me. So that’s what I hate.
Sometimes also, someone makes a good argument and then ends it with something so.. banal.. like “Think about what I said. Or just think. Period.” I mean… wha-aa?? And then, asking the girl to identify herself, she gives me her name, age and caste. All I asked for was a name/email. It just throws me when people will drag a debate to its lowest and get so personal when it could be just a good debate. Im pretty sure they wouldn’t if we actually met and were talking face to face.
Dilip, disagreement is one thing but personal remarks is quite another – wonder if ignoring them sends any message to the writers of such comments…
Abi 🙂
Mangs, you are so right – the anonymity of the internet allows us to do so many things that we would never do in person – for instance,
we write in email things we would hesitate to in a letter.
the oft-discussed and never addressed responsibility and accountability issue…
I have had a steady stream of very mean and personal anonmymous comments on my blog. In response I had put a post titled ‘Anonymice’ in which I had 2 issues:
1) If every post of mine is indeed about IIM (which it is not) then please feel free not to read my blog instead of complaining about it here anonymously and rudely.
2) Just because I don’t reply to your comment – anonymous or otherwise – I am not a ‘snob’. Time is finite! Not all comments merit a response – often there’s nothing of value I can add beyond what I’ve originally written. And I hate arguing on one itty-bitty point ou may seize on – a dialogue on a post must be undertaken in its entirety . I’m not going to defend it word by word.
But the sicko comments would not stop. And though I thought myself to be Teflon coated and all that, it did get to me. Finally I switched off anonymous comments and the situation is much better.
But yes, I would agree that for some reason women get more hurtful and silly anonymous commenters… Just like it’s women who get ‘brushed past’ accidentally in trains. Hemangini’s post was brilliant and an accurate reflection of what practically every girl in India. In fact I was thinking of writing abt the other side – of being ‘brushed past’ by people you know! Over friendly uncles, cousins, neighbours, tutors, professors… That’s even more scary and shocking and common. But you live and learn!
Rashmi, I have seen the kind of nasty comments on you blog – so much of such commnents – on any blog – springs from resentment – the blogger is from IIM. Or female. Or popular. Or has opinions, and does not hesitate to express them. and the commentor is none of the above?
As Ravages pointed out, having a comment policy seems a good idea. You could state that such-and-such comments would be deleted. While it is true that a nasty comment does get read by a blogger, it could still be deleted if it doesn’t deserve to be read by other visitors.
Charu – just did a >post on this here – its synchronicity that Neha and I were discussing some of these issues yesterday. Here’s what i feel :
So what’s happening here? Is it that there are just some rotten eggs? Is it that they are perverts and sicko’s? Or spineless cowards who go under the name Anonymous? Or is there something deeper that makes us want to shout out loud – you are wrong and I am right?
Perhaps it is time to reflect. It’s probably got a lot to do with how we are coping with this relatively new medium. We come from a society that’s so hierarchical in nature, that has very strong rules and sets of do’s and don’ts, that has power balances rooted in tradition that has little concept or value for personal space, and that doesnot always encourage team play.
Lets just be conscious that it is a new medium, and we’re in a transitional phase – the blog world is toppling and threatening many of our traditional structures, giving open voice and power to many who hitherto had none. Its a world that is not hierarchical, one that encourages an even-playing field for free speech and debate no matter what gender or age or race or religion you belong to, it does not have many pre-ordained rules and prescriptions, its one where we need to learn to respect personal space, and where team play can be so rewarding.
We’re all learning … let’s deal with these issues in ways that make us more comfortable — for some, it is to close comments (which is such a pity), for others it is to simply ignore obvious ‘flamers’, and not engage in a debate. I personally prefer the latter. When you don’t engage someone, they may knock harder for a while, but soon, they will go away.
So, what’s going on here? Is it just a sheer coincidence or what. Are we all seeing a wave of nasty commenters.. I have to say from some recent experience(my Imrana post), that the best thing to do after dealing (actually making full length comment replies) with some rude/unrelated anon commenters is to simply ignore them. It seriously saps a whole lot of energy to deal with spineless anons who say they want to ‘debate’ and don’t even bother to leave a name, any name..(even if posting Anons).
Hemangini,
Guess what, in my Imrana post, I gave a heads-up plug to your post. And the same Anon commenter, hit back with one line quoted totally out of context from it (the one where you say abt the caste thing). I was apalled. S/he/it had nothing to say about the entire story, but this one line..
Not sure if it’s the non-men, non-majority thing. As you know, I am a man and I ain’t disclosing my religion. But I ain’t disabling anon comments. I have had many closet fans as well. Some of them have sent me lovely emails, after posting anonymous comments and I have actually had great conversation with them over email. I just can’t let go..(Heh! I even received one marriage offer 🙂 whoever got that!!)
Wake up soon! awaiting part-2.
ps:Preview button puhhleaze, or expand this comment box(and you are not allowed to ask me for the html code :p)
Charu – tried posting this earlier – it didnt for some reason. Its synchronicity that Neha and I were discussing just this issue the other day. Just did a blogpost on it – here are some of my reflections …. So what’s happening here? Is it that there are just some rotten eggs? Is it that they are perverts and sicko’s? Or spineless cowards who go under the name Anonymous (several Indian blogs are on Blogger and this is an easy way out for commenters)? Or is there something deeper that makes us want to shout out loud – you are wrong and I am right?
Perhaps it is time to reflect. Its probably got a lot to do with how we are coping with this relatively new medium. We come from a society that’s so hierarchical in nature, that has very strong rules and sets of do’s and don’ts, that has power balances rooted in tradition, that has little concept or value for personal space, and that doesnot always encourage team play.
Let’s just be conscious that it is a new medium, and we’re in a transitional phase – the blog world is toppling and threatening many of our traditional structures, giving open voice and power to many who hitherto had none. It is a world that is not hierarchical, one that encourages an even-playing field for free speech and debate no matter what gender or age or race or religion you belong to, it does not have many pre-ordained rules and prescriptions, it is one where we need to learn to respect personal space, and to embrace team play that can be so rewarding.
Maybe we’re in a state of Anomie – we’re all learning … let’s deal with these issues in ways that make us more comfortable — for some, it is to close comments (which is such a pity), for others it is to simply ignore obvious ‘flamers’, and not engage in a debate. I personally prefer the latter. When you don’t engage someone, they may knock harder for a while, but soon, they will go away.
hey – can’t seem to drop in a comment here …
hmmmm that got posted – hope this one goes too …
Its probably got a lot to do with how we are coping with this relatively new medium. Let’s just be conscious that we’re in a transitional phase – the blog world is toppling and threatening many of our traditional structures, giving open voice and power to many who hitherto had none. It is a world that is not hierarchical, one that encourages an even-playing field for free speech and debate no matter what gender or age or race or religion you belong to, it does not have many pre-ordained rules and prescriptions, it is one where we need to learn to respect personal space, and to embrace team play that can be so rewarding. Maybe we’re in a state of Anomie – we’re all learning … i tend to simply ignore obvious flamers, and not engage in a debate. When you don’t engage someone, they may knock harder for a while, but soon, they will go away.
Honestly guys, I think a thicker skin is required. The Internet is an open space. At a bare minimum, you can always disable anonymous comments – that definitely limits some of the offenders – unfortunately, you’re using WordPress and stuff, but on Blogger, disabling anonymous comments means you have to set up a Blogger account – this discourages a lot of the hit-and-run types who just want to say something nasty and skulk away (snickering too, I bet). As for the others, it’s best to ignore them. One note about Abhi of Sepia Mutiny – sorry but he also deletes comments which don’t agree with him or his philosophies (The latest raging debate on South Asian vs Indian is a case in point) – and if you want that kind of a set up, why bother to have comments at all, if you’re not willing to take criticism, no matter how nasty? It is the opposing posts which make up half the fun – that’s the challenge – how do you deal with an alternate point of view? Sure if the comment is “You’re an *ssh*le” then you can always delete that, or respond with “no..I’m not”…I used to get some nasty comments, and ignoring seemed to be the best trick. People who are ignored eventually give up the fight. But if you respond to the flamebait, they get encouraged…
just my two cents – and Charu, your first observation seems to be correct – I’m male and part of the “majority” religion…
(Suhail: Yes, I saw! Lots of anonymous commenters just pick out one little bit out of context and begin the party)
and charu, while your debate rages on, I have my first official spammer!! his problems have to do with my ex employer’s communist roots. Hoo boy. I have a friend on the job to delete, refresh, delete, refresh. It is annoying though.
Charu – It depends on what you want to do with your blog.
I mean if it is a blog which is your personal space to discuss things that matter to you, drop the comments
If you enjoy discussions (looks like you do) do not worry about the spam comments.
The serious blogggers and blog enthusiasts can watch each others back and decide not to respond to any spam comments.
BTW – Can you Delete the comments of others? If you do not like them?
Hi Charu, I am Anubha. I hope you don’t mind me ‘spamming ‘your comment box!!! Here is a little piece of information regarding an exciting new concept – blogging awards. You can visit my page for the curtain raiser .we require participation & inputs from all spheres of the blog world. Your participation would help us in providing variety as well as quality to our blogging awards – THE BLOGERRATTI . please visit my page and lend in your valuable support http://anubhasworld.rediffblogs.com Thanks
Charu…it’s a really sad thing to disable comments box in a popular blog…And yeah..we need some technologies to prevent those kind of bad things…
thanks for your thoughts on this. I am here in Delhi and dying from work pressure. Will respond to all this and write more just as soon as I can snatch a moment away from work – like I just did (sneaked away from work – up to a computer with internet access!)
(If your comments are not showing up, it could be an ‘approval’ issue – in case of too many links in the comment or just a moody blog – will sort this out soon)
Hi, first time here. From the looks of it, discussion about comments seem to be quite popular =). So, here’s my pitch in addition to many good suggestions here already:
1. You’re using a good software (keep it patched/updated) because tools save you precious time in dealing with your comments in the first place. The newer version of WordPress has the ability to create a whitelist of your comments by moderation. Use it to create your whitelist and genuine conversational comments relevant to your posts. It’s not limited to WordPress as Movabletype and TypePad are powering users to have a better feedback control to weed out signal from noise.
2. Comment spammers (commercial and flamers) do not understand the ethical bit, unlike most of us. So, the only way to deal with those should be by technology. Most people reading a conversation can spot a flame easily. So, not taking upon oneself is a good idea. But, to show your displeasure or to point-out to the rest of your readers (if you like), you could mark it as “below the threshold” ala Slashdot (by editing those comments (show “strike through” or “comment deleted because it was below the threshold”, if you don’t want to delete them). That also goes synonymous with a comment policy (just to let everyone know what you’d do if the comment belongs to a nasty/irrelevant/flaming category). The policy shows your transparency in dealing with them (and not necessarily educate them as if they’re ill mannered, as Ravikiran observed).
That should have read: weed out noise from signal. But I guess, you should’ve got that one. Sorry for posting again.
its quite simple. if we want to be in the public domain and put up our views, we are going to get some hecklers/abusers. it is part and parcel of the game.
best thing to do is to read it. if it constructive, take it on board. if it is petty, ignore it.
on spammers, as you point out so well, wordpress zindabad:) tho’ on the media musings site i have had to deal with 1200 spam comments on a single day:)
obviously this is a problem everyone faces. I am all for disagreement, even nasty coments where the commentor – anon or otherwise – disagrees with what I have said – but personal attacks are something else – I cannot understand them – for instance on a long ago post on the Janmabhoomi issue, someone had responded calling me a hindu-hater. huh?
Chetan, thanks for your inputs. I guess it makes sense to have a clear comment policy – and also show where a comment has been deleted – that is something I don’t do – maybe doing that will send a message across…?
Suhail, am really really sorry – and embarrassed – I have no idea how to make any changes to this comment box – either preview or increasing the length – will shout out for help soon on this one… till then bear with this please 🙂
and yes Suhail and Hema, I see people quoting things out of context all the time – take one line or part of a line to prove a point – atleast that way, the blogosphere seems to be heading the msm way!!
Dina, you are perfectly right – the internet as a medium is flat and allow one to hide as an anonymous person – atleast for all practical purposes – so people are still learning and struggling…. and abusing it in the processs…
It is an individual issue whether to allow comments or not. I personally feel that I shouldn’t get hassled with awkward and unacceptable comments since it gives a view into the range of feelings and thoughts people may have- how good they can be as well as how perverse they can be…