In the last few days, I have come across three different posts / discussions which have left me feeling shaken and stirred. These writings in isolation are disturbing enough but reading them one after the other makes me think very uncomfortable thoughts. They are all on the subject of sexual harrasment – in some form or the other.
The first is Hemangini’s widely discussed post Train to Chennai.. Here she describes an incident she experienced (suffered?) on a train journey where she was molested by a stranger….
The second is a message posted by a Mumbai ryzer on the networking forum – How to get stalked on ryze! (I don’t know if you can read this article if you are not signed in on ryze – so I will try to descirbe this in some detail). This lady on ryze has posted a message about how she was stalked and harrassed by a prominent member of the networking group. Following voices raised in suppport and some outraged voices in protest, she has gone ahead and named the person later.
The third one which I just read is by Chinmayee on Jasmeen’s Blank Noise Project. Here Chinmayee speaks up on behalf of Jasmeen who is working in the area of street harrassment – she responds to some comments on Jasmeen’s blog which contain suggestions to do something more concrete than demonstrating – these comments also go on to suggest that Jasmeen would be wise to stop hoping for miracles (if you are wondering what is the miracle here, it is expecting that men will stop mentally undressing women and groping at her body in public spaces).
Men will be men and libido conquers all?
Why should Jasmeen or Chinmayee even have to be in this position where they have to respond to comments which suggest that what Jasmeen is doing is inadequate and even meaningless…
These three posts have more than their theme in common…
One
Each of them (this is much lesser in the ryze message but very strong in the other two blog posts) has the woman writer voicing her thoughts about how she is made to feel responsible for what has happened with her…
Hemangini says – I called my mum after I left the cop station the first time. I said, “Do you think I over-reacted?” And this other voice in my head laughed at me, and our society. A strange man, touches you twice in the middle of the night, and your greatest worry when you screamed and complained, is, “Did I over react”?!
And Chinmayee in Blank Noise Project points out – We’ve all had terrible experiences. How many of us have had our breasts grabbed? How many of us have had men in crowded buses jerking off against our backs? Do we talk about it? No. Are we made to feel like it’s not our fault? No.
As I commented on this blog, that something happens all the time does not make it “normal” or even more acceptable. Certainly not sexual harrassment, of even the “mildest form”
In case of the ryze message, there is an active (I suspect soon to border on the violent) debate on about whether this woman’s post amounts to slander – because the man in question is a “decent” man…
Two
And for me the more disturbing aspect is that in each of these cases, scores of women have responded to the original post describing their own experience – “I have been through this too” – and saluting the woman for having the courage to talk about it – first.
It is to me, like the floodgates have suddenly opened and each woman has a groping, stalking, molesting story to narrate…
In case of the ryze incident, when I read the post, my first response was, I know who this man is and I am glad she is getting this out in the open…. And to my surprise and great shock, it was not the person I thought it was – so what does that make it, more than one man on such a popular business networking site who does such things on a regular basis…?
Going through such incidents is one thing but having to talk about it – to anyone, your closest friend, or even your mother – is quite another, equally harrowing thing. How long will we keep this within the realm of shame (lajja) for the woman – the victim – leaving the perpetrator scot-free and full of cheap thrills…?
This is how child molestors get away with it again and again – after molesting litle girls – and even boys – within their own family…
Hush, don’t say such lies…
Good girls don’t talk about such things
You must have imagined it…
Related link : Also pelase read Dina Mehta’s post SkypeMe Eve – Makes me wonder whether the SkypeMe button attached to a ‘female’ profile somehow suggests a new form of phone sex.
true..most of us go through these things sometime or the other.. and still we let ‘them’ get away with it..it should definitely be brought to notice instantly
oh god, yes – i was creeped out by some really warped hatemail recently – the kind of stuff that people would be ashamed to post even as anonymous comments…
thanks for the wonderful links, charu, and for this excellent post.
I agree with everything else but .. leching? Why is looking at a woman and appreciating her beauty evil? Or imagining her naked? Are we going to police thoughts now? Granted, leching blatantly with the objective of making the woman feel uncomfortable is reprehensible, but lets just clarify what should and should not fall within the domain of eve teasing.
I’d read a couple of these posts before, but when you present it all together, it shows how chilling the whole thing is. These things are so depressing. We are a nation in denial, and we haven’t lost the habit of blaming everything on the victims. Thanks for the excellent post.
Thanks for the links and a great post Charu. The stories struck a personal cord. Yes, each one us do have our set of stories to talk about.
Firstly I do letch.. I am single man and i do have cravings and desires. I do dream/fantasize about some women i love… and i do not think it is wrong, coz what i do with what i see is none of anyone else’s business. And those who I love hold some meaning to me… its not that i am considering them as some object which is to be devoured. I respect them, and thats why i love them.
However letching to be the motive of sexual harasment is something wrong. It shows that such a person views women as objects of utility not as a human with independent choice.
The difference between a feeling and the feeling being the motive of an antisocial action is something very subtle… but they ARE very different. For example, we all feel bad about some politician but do we go out and kill them?
Secondly::: I believe that what we are seeing is a pathetic social situation which has a deeper philosophical meaning. Let give two examples.
1)I moved into a new appartment few months back.I use the lift to get into my appartment. Many people in the block do not know me. There is a Gujarathi family staying one storey below my appt. I have noticed that whenever I am alone in the lift no girl from that floor enters it. The moment they see me alone in the lift, they just move back and wait for the door to close. However if there are other people then they do not mind entering. This situation makes me literally laugh within myself as to what these girls think of me. However I do realize that they look at me as one person from the society… and we can just see how vulnerable they are feeling.
2) Once I had a huge argument with my friend, I was visibly angry and really frustrated. I was dressed in a traditional unclean dress and maybe looking like a rowdy. I was walking along an empty street, really fast. There was one girl coming on the opposite side… I hardly ever noticed, what she was doing. But i could see that she did sense some trouble and was slowing down. I was still walking very fast. Now she really started getting concerned. And i could see that she literally stopped walking and was looking at what i was doing. I could see that she was moving towards the side of the road..defensively!!!!. I filled with anger at my friend with whom i argued and I couldn’t grasp what was happening around.I did not slow down. At a very near distance i could see the sweat on her face… she was francticaly searching for her mobile. She finally got her mobile and was trying to dial some number. At this time i marched right past her… while she had virtually withdrawn into the side of the street over a gutter.I just instinctively looked back….without really grasping the whole picture.I could see that she was virtually running away!!!!! Its only later when i cooled down that i realized what had happened. Well that is the nearest I could get to haras a girl!!!! and i did not like it at all 🙂
It showed me how pathetic and vulnerable we have made ourselves to be.
I believe that in India harassment has a deeper socio-philosophical or ethical meaning. I am getting the feel of it. Maybe i shall post it on my blog someday.
Charu,
I had an odd experience while reading your post. While I was reading it, I kept thinking “I couldn’t imagineâ€, “I don’t know what I’d doâ€. But then I remembered that I had not only had one such experience, I’d had four. I just hadn’t thought about them in years. I have to wonder about what that says about my acceptance of such phenomenon. I remember that each time I was angry, but underlying that anger there was an acceptance of the situation as ‘normal’ and I just had to “deal with it†and move on.
thanks for referring to my post on jasmeen’s blog, charu. i forgot to make one distinction there and maybe i should clarify here because of the comment on policing thoughts. there is a clear difference between “checking someone out” and downright leching. just looking at a woman/man twice because you like what they are wearing or how they look is different. what i mean by leching in my entry on the blog was the really, well, blatant sort. accompanied by crude remarks or gestures. that should amount to harassment.
Wonderful post and great discussion. Thanks, Charu, for bringing this issue forward in such an in(d)sightful way. It’s particularly nice to see men writing in with self-reflection, not simply jumping into defensive mode. We all need to look at our own motives and actions to change this sad reality. I am a single woman just old enough to be left alone most of the time, even in agressive North India. This month I have a 15-year-old girl staying with me and have to once again think about the safety strategies that are forced upon young women in India (one version) and in Canada (my home country).
From my own experience, one of the things that has always made me really angry is whenever I have to choose to walk or not walk alone at night. Sometimes I do it and put up with the nervous glancing-over-the-shoulder feeling even a walk around the block can cause, sometimes I err (or not) on the side of caution. Both feel wrong.
The Handmaid’s tale all over again.
though outing someone on a public board is not quite what i would have done. the women’s cell, the police are a far more effective detterent. i really admire what Himangi did. She stood up for her rights that exist within the system, she saw it through.
i have no issues with a public discussion on this topic. but getting two sides in pitched battle “he is a stalker” “she is delusional/has loose morals” is trial by mob. Not the best way to resolve the issue and punish the guilty.
On another note, it is such a relief to see the The Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Bill – getting into place. i guess some amount of lobbying needs to get into place to ensure girlfriends, fiances, mistresses – are covered by the act.
Thanks for the links Charu; do wish I could read the ryze thing in full though…
And Harini, it’s Hemangini 🙂
whoosh! I am quite overwhelmed by the repsonses. and there are a couple of comments on this on another post (on the nextone on two new blogs) – and then the comments to chinmayee’s post on jasmeen’s blog… be back here after I read and think about them…
oops sorry Hemangini:)
as i said, feels sick to be a part of that race and gender.
iG
I am surprised that such things happen in India. Trust me, I never thought sexual harrassment is common or prevalent in our country. Maybe, I never bothered to look beyond books, the one thing I care about.
What happened to Mangs was sad but I think Mangs over-reacted. Yes, she over-reacted! What “Sanjeev Kumar” has already got is “cruel and unusual punishment”. And, no I think people are responsible for the acts of volition. If he were a psychopath or repeat offender (how do I know? Psychology classes!), she would have realized how the system wouldn’t have got anything in either US or India.
Anonymous (at comment 15): Such things do happen in India. Much worse than this happens in India. India is a part of the world, and this – and much worse – happens all over the world. Less in some places, more in others, but it happens everywhere.
I love books, too, but we all need to look beyond them, look around at the real world and see what we can do to change things.
I already see the internet, websites, emails, and BLOGGING as an important way of speaking out. Of showing solidarity. Voicing secret fears…and secret weaknesses. And, on the rare occasion, sharing those special moments when one discovers… a kind of strength. As Mangs did, on that day.
That post by Mangs was incredible. It touched a very secret, vulnerable part of me as a woman – just as it must have touched other women. And, I’m sure, quite a few men.
I don’t think she overreacted at all. She did the right thing, the responsible thing. The thing that we should all do, each of us, in a similar situation: except that she is the one who has done it.
Filing a complaint with the police and getting the legal/punitive system into action is what we need to do in such a case. Public shaming, etc is not a punishment. The aggrieved individual should lodge the complaint, the police should investigate, the court should pronounce its judgement. Does this sound idealistic? Ideals are only as good as the people who believe in them. This is how the legal system should work, and it will only work if each one of us shows the kind of incredible responsibility that Mangs showed on that day.
Hi…
Makes me recall a few of my past instances.Makes me sick to my stomach.And i want to read that Ryze thing too.I just registered there for the sake of reading what kind of harrassment happend there on -“How to get stalked on Ryze” link that you put in your blog.Do u have it stored anywhere , by any chance…and can put it on this site or send that story to me? I’m dying to know who that “decent” man is.Coz i do know a few in Ryze.Quite popular ones.And i’m darn curious as to know who it is.Please..!! Do something and let us know what’s in there.We NEED to know.
And btw, ur doing a mighty great job with this site.May God bless and help you help many women in guarding against such letching perverts!
Thanks and Regards,
Celeste.
My id:celeste_09@sify.com
hi after reading all the opinions hey of course men are to blame but what about the media how many years has it been since cable tv got introduced in india and there has been a bombardment of sex on tv which sends a message may be its ok to letch so it will take some time but indian men will get over letching
Good to read. reminded me a lot of what life was like…a long time ago…see my links..to my thoughts on http://m0rph3us.blogspot.com/
Sexual harassment, especially in a public setting, is despicably. Very brave of all the women who are speaking out. Personal shame is not easy to publicly admit. I am hoping things will change with more and more women speaking out. I am a guy, but I have seen such incidences and in almost all cases intervened to stop such lewd behavior (not successful on all occassions, but hey I tried!! :))
In a reply to the post from Vijay: to blame cable TV for this disgusting behavior is not accepting the fact that the problem is in minds of those who perpetuate it and not in the media. I am sure this behavior existed long before cable TV or for that matter TV existed.
I am of the firm view the female is made for male to copulate and reproduce.When such activity takes place the attraction is important.Men and women are in various hormonal levels and even some variations such as temperature and looks etc have influence on sexuality.
From the eys of the men when they are in heat even uncouth women look beautiful.The replicating DNAs have role to play.There is no question of harassment of women by men or vice versa.These or all like bonding and anti-bonding orbitals in atoms if you simplify the situation into a coneptual reality.
Men who have more testosterone have more attaction for just copulation.But this biological activity is posible only if both or in their so-called health and mutual attaction.Even a small mental disturbance can create anti-bonding.
Why rape? Because the heat of the man is umatchingly high to cloud his brains on social issues.Why the harrasment? the very idea of harassment is wrong .when their is mismatch in the sexual valencies these occur.Their is no law to explain this and hence the commonsense social wisdom is supreme.In the society many want o live by economics,some wnat to live by emotion and some by sex etc.
Women crying wolf on harassment is very wrong.My experience is those women who look bad and are not attarctive think the very possession of the correct sexual organs is sexuality or even separate status.Then why hermophradites in the world.Again go to evolution and reason out in the present context of civilisation.Many are riddled in their bounded holes and refuse to accept reality.
This is selfish ego.Some men cry wolf of harassment.Let them check up their androgen levels.
Live as u like and don’t seach for ways to live to p[lease others.Sex and love are vents for some economically developing countries.In western society people live with human spaces and do things with an experimental attitude.
The caste system is also because of sexual deficiencies and looks.In USA balcks are disciminated by colour.But still sexually attarctive balcks score in society.
In India Brhamins adoptd a vegetarian and peaceful way of life pursuing the imaginary.I mean God.The non-brahmins were jealous still supported the brahmins with bitshai(alms).Even some brahmins took to nomadic life like the non-brahmin merchats of olden days.But who won the world.The thinkers and those who pursue imaginary things.Why? the hormonal or biological chemicals in brahmins atleast in 70% of them (speaking statistically)are better towards preservation of race for peace.Politics and administration and police and rule of law are for the no-brahmins only.Because the are hormonally different.Can a crow become a swan? biologically immpossible beause of the variations in DNA an we don’t know this still.
Love ,Kindness ,affection etc are for the poor to congregate and show their strength.But the rich and economica;lly sound are guided by the force priciple inside them ruled by their DNA.
Let brush side the small bickerings such as harassments etc which are biological conflicts which cannot be resolved if the economics underneath is tight.
Venkat
go
In response to #22 by Venkat:
List of (unacceptable) phrases in your response, which make your opinions worth absolutely zilch:
1) the female is made for male to copulate and reproduce (why not the other way round?)
2) There is no question of harassment of women by men or vice versa (wake up!!)
3) Women crying wolf on harassment is very wrong (go ahead and make harrassment/rape legal)
4) the hormonal or biological chemicals in brahmins atleast in 70% of them are better towards preservation of race for peace (where did you get this from? the black hole in your brain?)
5) Politics and administration and police and rule of law are for the no-brahmins only (oh boy, I don’t even know what to say here!!)
6) Can a crow become a swan? biologically immpossible beause of the variations in DNA an we don’t know this still (what the hell are you talking about??)
I could have picked on pretty much each and every sentence of yours, but I chose only the best (or do I call them the worst??) You’re looking at sexual harrassment from an evolutionary perspective?? And throwing in phrases like ‘coneptual reality’, ‘biological conflicts’, ‘sexual valencies’, ‘economics underneath’?? Who ARE you??
Doesn’t matter. There are two possibilities – one, you deliberately wrote all this stuff to give the readers here a good laugh or two, in which case, I applaud you. Two, you seriously think that you should be given control of society and that you would rectify all the existing social problems. Maybe you plan to do that by legalizing rape as a first step. In this case too, I applaud you, for very different reasons though!!
Thanks for giving all of us a good laugh here.
I like to think of myself as a smart girl, but there are a ton who are smarter than me. At least I’m not like Dubbya who has called himself “the Deciderâ€. HAHA – That’s so funny!
It’s a shame how society looks at sexual harrassment cases as lesser crimes or hormones and boys will be boys and that many incidents go unreported.